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Phasing out home phones

Protech
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Re: Phasing out home phones

Apparently there are 100 exchanges due for closure by 2030. My understanding is that Openreach have to give the LLU operators 2yrs notice of exchange closure.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/9601-openreach-aims-to-close-100-phone-exchanges-by-2030
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HPsauce
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@MisterW "There's no technical reason why a voip (Digital voice) number can't be retained when moving. There was a problem retaining a landline number when moving to another exchange, but that is not  a restriction for voip. I have a voip number that was originally on an exchange 50 miles away!"

Excellent point; I'm not planning to move in the near future but it would be useful to keep the same number if/when we "downsize". People we know do still ring our landline number, though most calls are of course scams! 😠

@Protech Thanks for that link to the "at risk" exchanges, which we're definitely NOT on! Though two of them ARE used by members of my family whose landline numbers we don't even know. Younger generation who only have a landline because it's needed for broadband.....

JSHarris
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Re: Phasing out home phones


@Protech wrote:
Apparently there are 100 exchanges due for closure by 2030.

 

At a (conservative) estimate of these plots of land being worth £150k each, that's worth 15 million to OR.  In reality they are likely to get more than this for many exchanges.  Our village exchange is at the "posh" end of the village, on a plot that would comfortably take a detached 2 to 3 bedroom house, and the house next door to the exchange sold a couple of years ago for £520k.

Add in the saving they accrue from not having to maintain, power and heat/cool these buildings and it's easy to see why OR are so keen to get shot of them as quickly as possible.  They might raise enough from doing this to cover the cost of the bonuses for their top brass . . .

flamesong
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Re: Phasing out home phones

Forgive me for just skimming through thirteen pages of posts and maybe repeating stuff which has already been said.

I just renewed my Plusnet contract. I have little choice of providers where I live - they all say that they can provide broadband and promise me double my present speed (16-18Mbps) after putting in my postcode on price comparison sites but when I then go to sign up, they say that they don't provide any service in my area.

So, when I renewed my contract, I asked about the future of the landline service but the information I was given seemed to directly contradict the advice on the government website on this subject, i.e. that it should be straightforward and probably as simple as plugging one's phone (if it is compatible - which mine is) into a socket on the router. Given that Plusnet is owned by BT, one could be forgiven for believing that Plusnet customers would benefit from this straightforward transition but I was told that unless I switched to another provider, I would lose my landline.

This brings me to the next difficulty which we will face because there is not a mobile provider whose signal is reliable here and very often, I have to give callers my landline number and ask them to call me back on it. Wi-Fi calling ought to be a workable option but for some reason calls drop even when I am a few feet from the router and my girlfriend has a Plusnet mobile contract so her phone cannot even use Wi-Fi calling!

I've been at my current address for 14 years - the broadband has always been problematic and whenever there has been an issue, the first thing I have done has been to pick up the phone and check for a dial tone and it has always been there. The landline has always been there - when there has been no internet and unusable mobile signal. Consequently, whenever I have a problem with the broadband, I phone Plusnet on my landline - if the connection goes down in future, what am I supposed to do, walk half a mile down the road to get a usable mobile signal, wait on hold until somebody answers who then asks me to tell them what the light on the router is doing?! Hang on, I'll just walk back and check...!

We have had to go four days without internet and propped a tethered phone on a wall outside on a clear day to edit a Tesco order but took it on the chin but never felt completely cut off from the world knowing that the home phone was there. It's one thing to leave the rural community a decade behind as far as internet speeds are concerned - it's the price of peace and quiet, perhaps - but to cut off a service which could be the last line of communication is a different matter and without wishing to sound too hyperbolic, could be a matter of life and death in an emergency.

flanzm
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Re: Phasing out home phones

A small point but exchanges were sold a few years ago to Telereal Trillium, and are now leased back. So the saving is actually in leasing and running costs.
Mr_Paul
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@flamesong 

"my girlfriend has a Plusnet mobile contract so her phone cannot even use Wi-Fi calling!"

Are you both aware that Plusnet Mobile is in the process of closing down?

Has she received an offer to move to EE yet, (who do facilitate WiFi Calling)?

I might be a good idea to investigate a change of mobile supplier - or possibly wait until the upcoming March annual price increases have been applied, to avoid a sudden jump in cost.

 

"for some reason calls drop even when I am a few feet from the router"

Who is your mobile service with?

 

 

HPsauce
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Re: Phasing out home phones

So going back to an earlier comment of mine, that I'm on ADSL with decent speeds and no need to move to fibre and pay more....

I've checked out my costs and worked out that it's cheaper to just move to A&A with ADSL and VOIP. BUT I CAN'T!

Speaking to A&A they can ONLY offer me an FTTC connection due to the BT "Stop sell" edict. This surely is a forced price increase on consumers? And can anyone explain what exactly the Stop Sell rule is?

They did suggest that BT "might" migrate me (i.e. force me to) a product called SOADSL if I moved my broadband from PN to BT, but are they allowing that? My phone line is with BT already.

A&A don't currently offer SOADSL but said they are looking at it and may be doing so fairly soon if their systems can be updated.

As a footnote a line check shows SOADL is available and "SOADSL is not restricted at the exchange"

For now I think I'll just sit tight and wait to see what happens. 

flamesong
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Re: Phasing out home phones

Thanks, yes - well kind of. I realised that Plusnet was not an option when I was looking to move mobile providers due to poor signal a few months ago. I was of the understanding that customers would be automatically switched to an EE account.

Protech
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@HPsauce
Stop sell explained somewhere in here
https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/openreach-change-telephone-network

This struck me as a little off though

"all while continuing to provide the reliability and reassurance of the traditional landline"
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Baldrick1
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@flamesong 

In your lengthy post you raise a few separate issues.

The government advice assumes that all ISPs will be offering a digital VoIP telephone service. This is incorrect. It has been decided by BT, Plusnet’s owners, that Plusnet will not be offering the digital phone service. Whilst the Hub 2 has a phone socket it is not operational, it is simply an unused feature left over from the equivalent BT hub that does have this capability.

As has been advised, Plusnet mobile is closing and does not support WiFi calling. You should be offered a new contract with EE, there is no automatic transfer, you have to start a new contract with a different company (EE).

Regarding your girlfriend’s phone, I suggest that you start a new topic on the My Router board, explain your problem and ask for advice.

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HPsauce
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@Protech that puts a whole new meaning on the word "explained". 😂

The implication is that "CPs" (ISPs?) will have to move all landlines to a digital rather than POTS service by the end of 2025 (fat chance!) and that already the old POTS services can no longer be sold to new customers.

But I'm on a copper POTS phone line from BT Retail with ADSL from another company (Plusnet, a another BT subsidiary) and apart from being (accidentally?) aware that PN can no longer take over my phone line/number on a combined bill I've genuinely heard nothing from either supplier.

I wonder what BT Retails plans are to "digitise" my copper line for voice and what difference it makes that it runs ADSL already from a supplier that I understand does not and will not supply VOIP or equipment to support it?

Will, for example, BT Retail offer, at a competitive price, to take over my broadband and supply suitable equipment (router etc.) to interface my existing telephones? 

MisterW
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@HPsauce the rules for 'stop sell' are explained in detail here https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-all-ip-programme/stopsell-updates

Warning, it does get a bit technical in places...

 

I wonder what BT Retails plans are to "digitise" my copper line for voice and what difference it makes that it runs ADSL already from a supplier that I understand does not and will not supply VOIP or equipment to support it?

Will, for example, BT Retail offer, at a competitive price, to take over my broadband and supply suitable equipment (router etc.) to interface my existing telephones? 

Both very good questions... not sure BT Retail or Plusnet has the answers though...

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

HPsauce
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Re: Phasing out home phones

Thanks for that @MisterW as you say "a bit technical" but I used to be an IT manager responsible for both IT and telephones (including some large call centres) so I'll give it a go!

The key sentence (for me) seems to be "Under the WLR UK Stop Sell policy, CPs will not be permitted to request WLR working line takeovers, addition of broadband using WLR PSTN lines (FTTC, SMPF or SLU SMPF), bandwidth modify (FTTC) or WLR start of stopped lines"

Now my "line" for telephony is contracted with BT retail and at present I don't plan to change that. Once we're "digitised" then I'll probably review options. But does that sentence imply that my broadband (contracted with PlusNet) cannot be transferred to BT Retail? And even if it could, I suspect they'd try very hard to move me to FTTC and digital voice which would probably cost me more! 🤔

Baldrick1
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Re: Phasing out home phones


@HPsauce wrote:
Now my "line" for telephony is contracted with BT retail and at present I don't plan to change that. Once we're "digitised" then I'll probably review options. 

 


What would concern me greatly was whether BT knows or cares that you also have Plusnet broadband. Digitising your phone implies that they will install their own  low bandwidth dsl connection, automatically removing the Plusnet service, triggering the cancellation of your Plusnet account and deleting your emails if appropriate. I can see the potential for a right hornets nest for those with split services.

 

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MisterW
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Re: Phasing out home phones

@HPsauce But does that sentence imply that my broadband (contracted with PlusNet) cannot be transferred to BT Retail?

If you have VDSL availability, then my understanding is, Yes. Only SoGEA would be available to order, therefore a transfer of broadband to BT (or any other BTw ISP!) must be to SoGEA and digital phone.

If you don't have VDSL available then its a bit of a 'grey' area, since SoADSL doesnt seem to be quite ready yet. If it was then I suspect the answer would be similar, only SoADSL and digital phone would be an option.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.